Zach sits down with Shelly Schwalm, Director of the DCE (Director of Christian Education) Program at Concordia St. Paul, to talk about a ministry role many people know about—but don’t fully understand.
Shelly breaks down what DCEs actually do (cradle-to-grave discipleship), why congregations could place far more DCEs than we’re currently graduating, and what schools like CSP are doing to remove financial barriers—including major tuition initiatives for church work students.
They also explore what Shelly is seeing in Gen Z: an increased openness to spirituality paired with deep anxiety, risk-aversion, and a longing for steadiness and purpose. Zach and Shelly discuss how the church can help young people build resilience, trust God beyond their comfort, and find real community.
In addition, Shelly reflects on her experience serving as a woman in the LCMS—navigating leadership, influence, and calling without feeling the need to apologize or prove herself—and why creating clear, healthy pathways for women to use their gifts matters for the future of the church.
Plus: Shelly shares what it was like to host the 2025 LCMS Youth Gathering, including the behind-the-scenes theological review process, the weight of stewarding that platform, and stories that still stick with her—like baptisms after the gathering and the powerful reminder: “You belong.”
Today’s episode is brought to you by Hodos. Hodos is a new non-profit designed to pave the way for the next generation of Lutherans. Designed for 18-29 year olds, Hodos is currently planning a national Young Adult Gathering for 2027. For interest, updated information, or donation options, please go to www.HodosWay.com.
Email Shelly: schwalm@csp.edu
Concordia St. Paul (CSP) Church Work / DCE Program: https://www.csp.edu/faith-ministry/church-work-programs/
Concordia St. Paul Church Work Tuition Guarantee:
https://www.csp.edu/faith-ministry/church-work-tuition-guarantee/
LCMS Youth Gathering: https://www.lcmsgathering.com/
NADCE (National Association of DCEs): https://nadce.wildapricot.org/
A DCE is a lifespan educator—focused on discipleship from “cradle to grave,” not just youth group.
Across the LCMS, we could place far more DCEs than we’re currently forming and graduating.
The DCE pathway is also a significant and viable space for women serving in the LCMS, creating opportunities for leadership, teaching, and theological formation within our church body.
Healthy church work is recruitment. As Shelly puts it: “We have a recruitment problem because nobody wants to look like us.” Worker wellness and visible joy in ministry matter.
Gen Z shows increased openness to spirituality, but fear and control often shape decisions.
The church can help young adults develop resilience by creating safe spaces to take healthy risks and trust God beyond comfort.
Conversations about men returning and women disengaging from church life invite reflection on how we create healthy, faithful pathways for everyone to use their gifts.
Youth Gathering content is highly vetted: “Every word… went through multiple eyes.” Theology and teamwork matter.
The most powerful calling into church work still comes from a personal invitation: “Have you ever thought about…?”
Rest and trust Jesus.
Shelly’s encouragement is simple and deeply pastoral: take Jesus at His word that grace is for you. Lower your shoulders, take a deep breath, and live from security in Christ—not from fear, hurry, or control.
Many want to be greater followers of Jesus but don’t know how. We extensively studied everything Jesus commanded of us and located five key targets to which Jesus invited His followers. The five targets are Being, Forgiving, Serving, Giving, and Going.
In partnership with LifeWay Research, we created a Red Letter Challenge Assessment that will measure you according to these five targets. And the best news of all: it’s free! You will get results back immediately and be presented with the next steps to help you become an even greater follower of Jesus.
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