In this episode of The Red Letter Disciple, Zach sits down with Pastor Brad Urlaub for an honest and needed conversation about the future of pastoral ministry.
As debates continue around residential, SMP, and alternate pathways into ministry, Brad challenges the church to ask a deeper question:
Are we focusing too much on pathways—and not enough on outcomes?
Drawing from 14 years in ministry and firsthand observations of pastors leaving ministry, Brad shares why the church must think beyond seminary education and toward long-term pastoral health, resilience, and formation.
Together, Zach and Brad unpack:
Brad also shares five key outcomes every pathway should seek to develop:
Whether you’re a pastor, church leader, or someone passionate about the future of the church, this episode offers wisdom, challenge, and hope for forming healthier leaders for generations to come.
Today’s episode is brought to you by Hodos. Hodos is a new non-profit designed to pave the way for the next generation of Lutherans. Designed for 18-29 year olds, Hodos is currently planning a national Young Adult Gathering for 2027. For interest, updated information, or donation options, please go to www.HodosWay.com.
Email Brad: pastorbradurlaub@gmail.com
Concordia Seminary St. Louis: https://www.csl.edu
Concordia Theological Seminary Fort Wayne: https://www.ctsfw.edu
SMP Program Overview: https://www.csl.edu/academics/programs/specific-ministry-pastor-smp/
The church may be winning arguments while still losing pastors
Pastoral formation is bigger than seminary pathways
Long-term pastoral health requires ongoing formation after ordination
Trust is one of the biggest issues underneath formation debates
Seminaries can ground pastors—but they cannot fully prepare them for ministry hardship
Healthy ministry requires rhythms of Scripture, prayer, Sabbath, and community
The church needs both more pastors and healthier pastors
Why “Outcomes Over Pathways” reframes the entire debate
The difference between theological knowledge and theological discernment
Brad’s personal burnout story and lessons learned
Why many pastors try to do ministry alone
The danger of pastors becoming “the hero” of ministry
What seminaries can and cannot realistically accomplish
Why the public and private life of pastors matters deeply
How churches and districts can better support pastors long-term
Stop asking only how to get men into ministry and start asking how to form and sustain faithful pastors over a lifetime.
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